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Medieval Women in Modern Fiction
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Pope Joan,
Did she really exist ... or didn't she? |
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| pkmayn |
| Posted: 06
Mar - 07:15 am |
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Member
Group: Members
Posts: 1
Member No.: 75
Joined: 2-March 04
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Donna
Cross' novel, Pope Joan, provides much food
for thought where the lives of medieval women
are concerned. Set during the 9th century
in France (then Frankland) and Rome, it focuses
on a woman named Joan who, according to numerous
accounts down through the years, disguised
herself as a man (John Anglicus) who eventually
rose to sit on the papal throne for approximately
two years. According to the author's in-depth
research, the Catholic Church by its own
admission began expunging mention of Joan’s
name in their records during the 17th century.
Regardless, there over 500 remaining accounts
of her papacy in other ancient manuscripts,
two of them being the “Liber pontificalis”,
a copy of which still exists today, and the
well documented trial of Jan Hus for heresy
in 1413 (in which she is cited as one example
of Popes who had committed crimes again the
church, i.e. in her case by masquerading
as a man). The author’s research also
revealed that “In 1276. after ordering
a thorough search of the papal records, Pope
John XX changed his title to John XXI in
recognition of Joan’s reign as Pope
John VIII.” Further, for approximately
600 years (up to the 16th century), the papal
consecration ceremony included the use of
a “chair exam”. This consisted
of a chair with a hole in it (akin to a toilet
seat) that exposed the genitals, usually
to a deacon, who would then confirm to those
gathered that the nominee was “indeed
a man”. This very chair survives in
Rome today and, although the Catholic Church
doesn’t deny its existence, they vehemently
deny that it was used for this purpose. Interestingly,
a comprehensive eyewitness account of Pope
Innocent VII’s coronation in 1404 included
the “chair exam”. Since medieval
women were considered little more than chattel,
it isn’t surprising that some of them
resorted to disguising themselves as men;
in fact, there are numerous verified accounts
of it happening. Sadly, due to the many gaps
in history and the fact that those in power
often rewrote it to suit themselves, we’ll
never know for certain whether or not Pope
Joan actually existed. Regardless, I think
there’s a lot of good evidence pointing
to the possibility that she very well may
have. |
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| Tamara
Mazzei |
| Posted: 06
Mar - 02:14 pm |
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Discussion Leader
Group: Admin
Posts: 28
Member No.: 1
Joined: 16-February 03
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Hi
Pat,
I loved this novel and I think it's a great
example of a medieval woman in modern fiction.
While I don't agree with you that she existed,
lots of ink and keyboard time has certainly
been expended in arguments about it in
the last thousand years!
Questions about her existence aside, I think the way her story
has been "used" is also very interesting. e.g., the pageants
and plays staged by various Protestant groups in the late 1600s
when their were rumours that Charles II was considering an alliance
with Catholic France. I love this bit which appeared in a 1675
tract called A Present for a Papist:.
A Woman Pope (as History doth tell)
In High Procession Shee in Labour fell,
And was Deliver'd of a Bastard Son;
Thence Rome some call The Whore of Babylon.
I also think it's interesting that whether she lived or not,
lots of people in the High Middle Ages definitely believed she
did. As you said, there are lots of accounts and references to
her in later documents; it's just that there isn't any until
400 years after she was said to have lived. OTH, I think it's
worth noting that the controversies about Joan and the "debunking" of
her story by historians do seem to have a whiff of mysogyny about
them.
~Tamara |
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| Elizabeth |
| Posted: 07
Mar - 03:34 pm |
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Discussion Leader
Group: Discussion Leaders
Posts: 7
Member No.: 63
Joined: 13-February 04
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I
would agree with everything that Tamara says.
Having had a glance on Google yesterday,
I found a fairly convincing site that has
explored the story of Pope Joan in detail
and has arrived at the reluctant conclusion
that she is an urban legend. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pardos/P...peJoanHome.html
What is interesting though is that a good author can immerse
us so deeply in the world they create that they take us with
them. The best novels make us want to know more - to go and investigate
for ourselves and find out more about astonishing lives. I'm
sure Sharon Kay Penman did a wonderful amount of PR for Richard
III, and Llewelyn ap Iorwerth and his wife, Joanna, natural daughter
of King John. Ditto Anya Seton with Katherine Swynford. How many
people would have heard of her were it not for the novel? If
Pope Joan did exist, it's an incredible story. If she didn't,
why was she invented? Fascinating!
Best
Susan
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| Wendy
A Zollo |
| Posted: 08
Mar - 07:28 am |
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Member
Group: Members
Posts: 9
Member No.: 77
Joined: 2-March 04
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What
is interesting though is that a good author
can immerse us so deeply in the world they
create that they take us with them. The best
novels make us want to know more - to go
and investigate for ourselves and find out
more about astonishing lives.
Susan>>
Which is exactly in MO the function (beside the enjoable read 
) of historical fiction especially when its main character is
a female.
Debating whether Pope Joan lived or not is in of itself a fascinating
discussion - and isn't that what hist-fict (concentrating on
novels written about women) supposed to do...make us search out
the real entity or the urban legand...regardless it makes us
think and ponder about the medieval women's role in *their* lives.
Wendy Z |
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