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| Gillian
Polack |
| Posted: 06
Mar - 03:13 am |
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Discussion Leader
Group: Discussion Leaders
Posts: 44
Member No.: 4
Joined: 21-February 03
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I
have just read the first topic again and
realised that we are all agreed on the ivory
divide. It would have been nice if it had
been a figment of our imagination, I have
to admit.
Can we pretend for a moment that some mysterious, wonderful benefactor
(no-one I know, alas, this is purely hypothetical) has decided
to donate tens of millions of dollars to produce books on different
aspects of women's history as part of an effort to bridge that
divide. And that it was not historians who got to decide what
aspects are researched and written about, but everyone reading
and participating in this discussion.
What would we commission and why? What women's history do we
*want* to see written about in books aimed at the wider public,
and not at specalists?
Gillian (who will happily be paid to do some of the research
and writing if any of you turn out to be that amazing, mythical
benefactor, but actually just wants to know what everyone's dream
books on women's history topics might be) |
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| Tamara
Mazzei |
| Posted: 06
Mar - 02:56 pm |
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Discussion Leader
Group: Admin
Posts: 28
Member No.: 1
Joined: 16-February 03
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I
know what I would want, but being greedy,
I think we'd need a comprehensive series
that would dwarf the OED! 
Seriously, what I would want is something
that gives the "feel" of women's lives
at different points and places in history.
Not biographies, and not just women worthies,
but lots of women and lots of detail, and
maybe even some women worthies in context
(and counterpoint) with the other women.
I know the detail doesn't always exist,
but where it does (and where it doesn't),
I'd like to see discussions of the sources.
Another thing I would like to see is akin to old-fashioned periodisation.
Not necessarily a strict order, but at least some sense of the "when" I'm
reading about. Joan mentioned in her earlier post that she "wanted
to get a sense of the life experiences of [her] female ancestors" --
this is something I wanted myself when my interest in history
was first piqued.
There is one more thing (I said I was greedy, didn't I? <g>)
that I, personally, would like to see: the removal of the artificial
constraints caused by dividing things into "public" and "private" spheres.
I know this is a valid method used to give women a larger slice
of the historical pie, but women were affected by the larger
(public) world as well and where possible, I would like to see
this included because it provides a framework for understanding.
Even in cases where women lived much of their lives in the private
domain, I feel as if some were still at least a little concerned
about things beyond the best recipes for laundry soap (though
like medieval toilets, that's interesting too)!
~Tamara |
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| Joannie |
| Posted: 06
Mar - 04:21 pm |
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Member
Group: Members
Posts: 4
Member No.: 39
Joined: 6-March 03
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Here
here Tamara,
This is the type of books, I personally,
would love to read more of. Your comments
made me think there could well be many
more fictional books that would cover the
topics that I am keen to read about. A
problem for me is knowing the titles. The
Floating Brothel is an example of this
kind of book, well placed in history, with
the poetic license.
A good resource could be a listing of recommended fictional works
that are well placed in a time a place - something like this
could even be put together on a site such as this. When people
visit they could add to a list (possibly set out in general historical
periods) giving title and author and a short description - or
does this exist elsewhere? Could be a fun exercise and isn't
examinable.
regards, Joan |
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| Sue_W |
| Posted: 11
Mar - 05:49 pm |
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Member
Group: Members
Posts: 2
Member No.: 88
Joined: 11-March 04
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Hi.
I'm a latecomer to this forum. Perhaps it
is worth introducing myself. I'm employed
as an academic (I'm officially an art historian)
but I have come late to that role and by
a non-traditional path. I'm still working
on my doctoral thesis, which doesn't fit
neatly into any category. I'm writing about
a group of embroiderers in NSW in the sixties
and early seventies. It isn't really art
history but the 'proper' historians probably
wouldn't claim me either. Working in the
gaps has its good points and its bad.
And as far as this forum topic is concerned, I suspect I have
a foot in both camps. As an academic I am under pressure to publish
in places that will earn my institution research brownie points.
But to be honest I would like my work to have an audience of
more than a dozen, so my embroiderers' story is one of those
I'd like to have published. Let me know if that benefactor appears!
Apart from that, I'm interested in stories that combine a rich
sense of time and place with an investigation into what goes
on inside women's heads (as far as it is ever possible to know
this). I want to know how women lived in different circumstances
and why they make the choices they do. As an artist and art historian,
I'd like to see more stories about women artists. Not just the
famous names, although there are some of those that haven't been
'done' yet, but those women who worked away as artists in spaces
somewhere between the public and private spheres. The difficulty
of course is that many of these women left few traces.
Sue W |
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| mnewton56 |
| Posted: 13
Mar - 09:06 pm |
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PenmanReview
Group: Members
Posts: 17
Member No.: 27
Joined: 1-March 03
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Sue
said:
I'm interested in stories that combine a rich sense of time and
place with an investigation into what goes on inside women's
heads (as far as it is ever possible to know this). I want to
know how women lived in different circumstances and why they
make the choices they do.
I hate to just post "me, too" -- but this is exactly what I like
in my reading. Since this topic (I think) relates to history(nonfiction)
as opposed to historical fiction, I would be especially interested
in actual journals/diaries/recorded narratives, and I believe
these are in fairly short supply. For the historians here, how
do we -- or do we -- investigate/discover what was going on in
womens' heads in eras such as the medieval period? I would think
that for Gillian and for Susan(Elizabeth Chadwick) the research
is one of the most fascinating parts of their work.
Mary N. |
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| Gillian
Polack |
| Posted: 20
Mar - 08:33 pm |
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Discussion Leader
Group: Discussion Leaders
Posts: 44
Member No.: 4
Joined: 21-February 03
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Mary,
there are quite a few journals and things
from women - just not a heap of early ones.
Some are coming into print; some are being
webbed. Big news in Australia last week,
for examples, was that the diaries of Miles
Franklin are being made more accessible.
It was seriously cool to hear excerpts read
out during prime time news. Franklin (Author
of My Brilliant Career, for anyone who can't
quite call her to mind) grew up not far from
where I live now, so I have a particular
interest in her, I guess.
I have quite a few editions of diaries and letters on my bookshelves
because I, too, find them utterly riveting reading. One of my
favourites is the diary of Blanche Mitchell - the life of a teenager
moving into Society Circles at a period in Australia's history
when there weren't that many people in Society Circles.
I would like to see more private material produced by women in
ages past made more widely available though. Most editions of
good stuff from the last three centuries are only around for
a year or two - if you are lucky you can find a copy in the time
it remains in print or have access to a library which has bought
it. So the printed book happens, but it is not accessible by
a lot of the wider public, which is really frustrating. Economics
of publishing again, I guess. There is quite a bit of material
online (eg http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/finder.html )
- but you often need to know where to look.
I guess my dream book in this category would be an annotated
giant collection of private writings by women and where they
are kept (archives, libraries, private collections, still with
family etc) and publication details. And the annotations would
have to include a potted biography (because I am greedy). Actually,
I suspect this would be better as an online publication, linking
to lots of books in our mythical collection - because then it
could be updated.
It would have to be international - I want to know about this
material in any language I can read, after all!! (yes, I am greedy!!)
Australia is doing something like this for women's papers in
general through its Australian Women Archives Project. It will
make a big difference to what we know about our women and our
history in general if all of us (not just specialist reasearchers)
can find out what is out there!!
Gillian |
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| mnewton56 |
| Posted: 22
Mar - 09:48 pm |
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PenmanReview
Group: Members
Posts: 17
Member No.: 27
Joined: 1-March 03
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Gillian,
thanks for this -- I will check the links
you have posted. This discussion has been
very interesting so far.
Mary N. |
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| Gillian
Polack |
| Posted: 23
Mar - 05:55 pm |
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Discussion Leader
Group: Discussion Leaders
Posts: 44
Member No.: 4
Joined: 21-February 03
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Talking
about bridging the divide and about websites
and about how to access things, one subject
we have not discussed is the current state
of the field on theory of women's history
ie what academics think and talk about when
they discuss these issues. If anyone is interested
(and I hope you are!) and have the computer/download
capacity, then it is really worthwhile taking
a look at this: http://www.loc.gov/rr/women/awprogram.html
It is a symposium on women's history where all the speakers are
experts in the field, and are talking about approaches and things.
The WWW is breaking down more of the divide than books are, in
my opinion, simply because sites like this bring academic history
to more people.
Gillian |
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| Gillian
Polack |
| Posted: 26
Mar - 12:08 am |
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Discussion Leader
Group: Discussion Leaders
Posts: 44
Member No.: 4
Joined: 21-February 03
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In
a few days time, Women's History Month will
be over for 2004. That thought has left me
with a query - what note do we want to end
on? Does anyone have any final thoughts on
Bridging the Ivory Divide?
Gillian |
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| Joannie |
| Posted: 30
Mar - 02:40 am |
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Member
Group: Members
Posts: 4
Member No.: 39
Joined: 6-March 03
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Hi,
Not being a final thought but just replying
to some of your earlier comments about
finding resources on the net. Over the
last couple of weeks I've been doing some
searching and know what you mean about
the time consuming aspect of this endeavour.
Yesterday, however, I came across, or rediscovered,
the Oz Lit site
http://www.austlit.edu.au
and did a search on topic of interest and was delivered a list
of 450 or so wonderful resources - thought I could at least share
this with anyone who may not have tried it out.
All the best with your continuing work. And thanks for your tips.
cheers, Joan |
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